The Evil Gas Empire that We MUST Stop!
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We all know that the USA economy pretty much sucks right now, right? Gas prices are on the rise and from the looks of it, it doesn’t look like they are going to be going back down any time soon. Since the USA is the largest online consumer… their economy affects all of us.
We want to introduce all of you to a man named Bart Stupak. Have you ever heard of him? Probably not. Well Mr. Stupak is a politician and represents Michigan’s 1st Congressional District.
Mr. Stupak is trying to urge the committee to pass the PUMP act. Now what this act stands for is the: Prevent Unfair Manipulation of Prices Act. What this act will be able to do is close loopholes that allows the inflate in energy prices.
Now Mr. Stupak here has held two hearings in the past six months. In these hearings he has been able to have experts testify that if the PUMP act is indeed passed, then our gas prices that we all hate, can be reduced by around 50%…in 30 days.
Over the past few years we have all watched as the price of Crude Oil has risen and has continued to rise. We will not for one instant say that this is the cause of the slumping economy but it sure as heck is causing major issues with it.
Vehicle manufacturers are closing down plants due to low sales, (who wants to buy a SUV right now?), airlines are raising their prices for flights AND are eliminating service to 100 cities and laying off thousands. Truck Drivers are loosing just as much money and are beginning to park and Farmers, well their prices have increased in all stages for their operation.
The point is the rising cost of crude oil is not reflective of actual demand, if it was then tere would be no argument here. But the way it currently happends is border line illegal, and nothing is being done.
Mr. Stupak believes that the price of crude oil shouldn’t be above $60 a barrel and he has even talked to the president of SHELL who has been quoted as saying that the price of oil should be “Somewhere between $35 and $65 a barrel.”
Mr. Stupak has taken a lot of time and effort to back up all of his points with a lot of information and he truly believes in this PUMP Act. In fact if this PUMP Act does indeed get passed it appears that the results would be beneficial, but of course we would not know for certain. We also know this is not a long term solution, we need to reduce and eventually eliminate our dependance on petroleum plus we need to become part of the solution and not just pont fingers and expect others to bail us out but some relief to those who need it is always welcome… especially reading things like…
Royal Dutch Shell’s first quarter 2008 earnings, on a current cost of supplies (CCS) basis, were $7.8 billion compared to $6.9 billion a year ago. Basic CCS earnings per share increased by 15% versus the same quarter a year ago.
and
SAN RAMON, Calif., May 2, 2008 – Chevron Corporation (NYSE: CVX) today reported net income of $5.17 billion ($2.48 per share – diluted) for the first quarter 2008, compared with $4.72 billion ($2.18 per share – diluted) in the 2007 first quarter. Earnings in the 2007 period included a $700 million gain on downstream asset sales in Europe.
To learn more on this, check out Bart Stupak’s page and listen to the MP3 at the bottom of the page.
What are your thoughts about this, do you believe it is an issue… what do you think is the long term solution to this issue and do you think Bart Stupak’s plan makes sense?
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John Cow post John Cow posted aboutThe Evil Gas Empire that We MUST Stop!. So instead of replying in a comment there, I will used this post plus add a few things. Yes, part of the price is too inflated for almost any reasons(geo politico tensions). Next, it will rise because someone farted on an island. Oh wait! farting
That would be incredible. My little protege took $50 two days ago. Something has got to give.
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Yes Please!!!!!! That would be awesome!
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The views you have expressed are short-sighted. Take the time to learn about the state of the world’s finite oil reserves. There is a great reference here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil and also an eye-opening film called ‘A Crude Awakening’. Oil is running out; not in centuries but in decades.
First of all that is a theory of decades and not a fact, there are arguments either way. The fact that we need to stop our dependence on petroleum is of course valid and is something we must do… no arguments there.
The fact that we are being ripped off at the pumps however is not short sighted and it is theories like you linked to that are part of the problem because people are using them to justify the situation when they are not truly related.
They are increasing prices to a level that is not reflective of the real situation and therefore is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Just our opinion of course
Here in Venezuela, the gas is the cheapest, even more than the watter. Here you can full your tank for $2 or $3
I should strangle you.
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Absolutely YES, I am all in favor of anything we can do to control this.
“Here you can full your tank for $2 or $3″
How much liters is full tank
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Cow, this is the stupidest post I have ever read and I would love for you to remove it now. I don’t get angry at a lot, but when someone posts a “solution” to gas prices, fists start flying.
Clearly, you don’t have a grasp on economics. This is a major problem wit hthe voting class in the U.S. today in fact.
First things first: “Gas prices are on the rise and from the looks of it, it doesn’t look like they are going to be going back down any time soon”
-If I’m not mistaken, the price of crude nosedived 11% this week alone
Also, why are you targetting Shell? Seriously! They aren’t making money, they are losing it! COmpanies like Exxon, Shell,. Chevron are profitable when oil is down in the <$80 range… and are actually hemmoraging money right now. There is no artificial manipulation of gas prices due to anticompetitive practice laws that fully prevent this from happening. If you think people are jacking prices at will… you have another thing coming.
I could rant all day long at how stupid a proposed boycott or whatever it says in that petition really is, but that would take up far too much space on your comment board. Perhaps I’ll post a follow-up post?
The price of oil should be a lot higher than it is in the U.S., in Europe, they are paying a premium and we don’t even realize this. Honestly, I’m wishing people that post these half-hearted petitions would just go away, because you clearly don’t understand the basics of supply and demand.
The american economy is fine. Don’t worry about us please.
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Hmm Mr sensitive, do not think we are targetting anyone… and as for the economics statement… maybe do research before you post, for example…
Royal Dutch Shell’s first quarter 2008 earnings, on a current cost of supplies (CCS) basis, were $7.8 billion compared to $6.9 billion a year ago. Basic CCS earnings per share increased by 15% versus the same quarter a year ago.
and
SAN RAMON, Calif., May 2, 2008 – Chevron Corporation (NYSE: CVX) today reported net income of $5.17 billion ($2.48 per share – diluted) for the first quarter 2008, compared with $4.72 billion ($2.18 per share – diluted) in the 2007 first quarter. Earnings in the 2007 period included a $700 million gain on downstream asset sales in Europe.
Oh and the mention that the USA economy is fine… well we do actually know a bit of ecnomics and one sure indicator is housing starts (if you know what that is) and right now housing starts are pretty much in the toilet which has a HUGE effect on the economy.
The Net Fool is right about this week’s nosedive, and it should be coming down some more, but ultimately $1 gas will probably be just a distant memory we tell kids about someday, I hate to say it. Even with those alternative energy sources or hybrid cars, they’re not going to appear overnight.
…OR WILL THEY?!
…but if they DID appear overnight, well, I wonder what would happen to all the cars we have now. Maybe they would rent them out to all those people whose homes were foreclosed, lol.
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You are obviously paid to toe the company line, a sheep who has been bought. Your belittling posture is surely a case of “me thinks he doth protest too much” and defensive. Your rosy picture of the economy WILL be proven wrong shortly, and longly. You are exactly part of the reason we are in this mess: compromised, bought-up, robotic
I have encountered many like you, and once you stop all your ranting and shouting, there is little to no substance. Rant on, Mr. Roboto
Hey I know it sucks, but if you don’t like the prices then don’t buy the gas. That’d be like me telling you not to sell your ads so expensive and give me a 50% cut.
Germzs last blog post..Invisible shield Review… what a scam.
The gas prices suck major butt right now. I don’t dispute that the gas prices are definitely artificially high, but there are several factors that are causing the gas to be high right now.
1. One, is that China has increased its demand.
2. The trading of oil futures has also artificially raised the prices as well. Now the flip side to this is that one has to remember in a capitalistic society regardless of the economy, someone is always making money. Now I say that to say, a lot more people could be cashing in on this oil run up if they invested to. Usually when it comes to investing it is a bad idea to follow the crowd. But oil and gold have proven historically to be two sound commodities to invest in.
3. OPEC refuses to increase production to meet the worldwide demand.
4. Congress refuses to allow us to drill our own natural resources.
5. And last but not least, Iran is causing a lot of tension in the middle east. Issues from the middle east have historically effected gas prices.
I am for anything that will help lower gas prices but, anything that is going to be done legislatively needs to keep those five things in mind for it to truly be effective.
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I hope that your understanding of Internet marketing is better than your understanding of economics and world politics. While I would love to go back to the days of even $2/gal gas it simply wont happen in my lifetime unless there is a total collapse of the world economy and then I still wont be able to afford even $2/gal gasoline.
Someone once said that if something appears to be too good it probably is and anyone promising to cut gasoline prices fifty percent in thirty days is offering something too good to be believed.
Yes we need to somehow shut the loopholes that allow speculators to drive up the price of crude and the big oil companies need to stop taking advantage of consumers when the price of crude drops but it isn’t going to happen until the general population gets so fed up with their congressional representatives voting for big corporations instead of taking their constituents needs and wishes into consideration that they get off their fat lazy asses and do something about it.
I’ve reduced my gasoline consumption significantly over the last year not because I can’t afford $4+/gal gasoline but because I am fed up with paying so much for gasoline. I walk more, bike more and plan my trips better, even bought a piece of crap economy car that get 35mpg average, what have you done to reduce demand for gasoline?
There is plenty of oil today and pumping more crude would do little to stop the speculation and the artificial pricing that we are experiencing.
We do… thats why we posted this
Get attention.. cause controvesy and all that good marketing stuff. If you have not caught on to that yet… well not sure what to do about that.
Hahaha nice link bait, I can’t believe I fell for it.
Germzs last blog post..Invisible shield Review… what a scam.
Great John! ‘Hard to believe, but true…
Now you’re using such a painful topic to generate personal awareness through controversy?
Those of us who have been in marketing for more than three years know that there is a thing called ‘marketing morality’.
You just crossed and obliterated the line.
Unlike the big media and other political/economic oligarchies, a minority of us (unfortunately not enough, it seems) STILL believe that it is untruthful, immoral and downright nasty to use such an all-pervasive problem as our economy and gas prices to bring even more (Internet Marketing) ‘attention’ to YOURSELF.
That’s like the media slogan: ‘if it bleeds, it leads’ (and sells newspapers and more broadcast and/or Internet ads).
I read your post, (not the links, since I realized up front the naieveté and fallacy of the economically/financially misinformed stance you were taking); then I continued with the comments up to this point, where you responded that your (true) motivation for writing and disseminating such (controversial) stuff was…and I quote: “Get attention.. cause controversy and all that good marketing stuff. If you have not caught on to that yet… well not sure what to do about that.”
I caught onto it immediately. As an honest marketer, it makes me sick to see you do that. If folks continue to use the problems of others only to further your own ends, all (Internet) marketers will be tarnished with the same brush as those you criticize…..we’ll all be seen as hucksters and used car salesmen, like President Nixon and that Texas family we all know and respect so much.
C’mon John. Get over yourself. There are things much bigger out there and one helluva lot more important than whether or not you sell more software or ebooks!!
Use other (more informed and above board) methods to market yourself.
Just try. I know you can do it.
Big Mac
Lowering the gas prices would basically stop all public interest in other forms of fuel. It is an unfortunate fact that pain must be felt before people are willing to change. I like the gas prices right now. But, then again, I drive a Vectrix.
I’ve got a better idea. Learn how to make money online by working from home and save 80% on your gas bill by not having to drive to an office. Saves you money on gas, time stuck in traffic, and the environment.
I think the true solution is to look for ways to stop having to move our “bodies” all over the place just to accomplish a task. Why fly from LA to NY for a business meeting that can be done via Internet Conferencing? Why “drive” to a book store 40 miles away to purchase a book when you can purchase it online.
I’m not saying everything can be done “from home”, but there’s definitely a lot of room for improvement in terms of efficiency.
I wouldn’t complain about gas prices. Higher gas prices means people stay at home more and read Blogs like this one.
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We do like your thinking
Gas prices can never go back to what they were 5-10 years ago , yes they “might” go down a little bit but then do I need to remind everyone that oil is non-generating energy source?
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You only fell for the link bait if you were foolish enough to Digg the post. Otherwise, all that has happened is that my respect for JC has diminished. If you going to use link bait don’t publish crap and expect it to stick.
Remember, you can choose to make a positive Digg or a negative Digg and I would choose the negative option if I clicked through to this post from Digg. My suspicion is that even if it does get a few positive Diggs the negative ones will bury it as most Digg members seem to have a dislike of hype.
Don’t count on me making any recommendations for this post.
Garry, this is not crap.. read the proposal that Bart has.. it makes good sense and if you have a pickle up your ass about something about it then thats your problem. We thought this was interesting and made for something to talk about.. seems others do to. And can you tell me where the hype is… this is a current news story that is of interest to people.
John: You are really out of line here, but I’m going to let it slide as nothing more than a cheap way to try to land front page on Digg.
I happen to be a mutual fund manager, don’t even start. People are quick to overreact. The fact is we’ve been having recessions since the dawn of time. They are natural and one of the most healthy occurances possible. If we DIDN’T have a recession, we’d be in a world of hurt. The economic picture is a lot better than we think it is. The fact that profits are up on oil/gas companies doesn’t mean squat.
This graph is a comparison with Exxon Mobil and the price of crude… you tell me where the profit is: http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=XOM&t=1y&q=l&l=on&z=m&c=CHK&a=v&p=s
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Out of line and cheap way… please do not be a hypocrite Jim… should I remind you of the post you made towards the cowpetition that you admited was to get a reaction. Anyway, thanks for letting it slide. Jim, we did not make up the numbers… you can see them for yourself. You ask us to tell you where the profit is coming from? Well we cant but they are telling us they are making lots of it.
Read for yourself…
http://www.shell.com/home/content/investor/financial_information/quarterlyresults/2008/q1/q1_2008_results_29042008.html
and
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/01/news/companies/exxon_earnings/
(this talks about thier record profits)
and
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080502/earns_chevron.html
Jim, not sure why you are so upset about this anyway but all we know is these companies are reporting record profits and we thought this was an interesting story.
Hi John,
The anger from a mutual fund manager, may well be because he saw the profit oil could make him and he has decided to slam anybody that might ruin it for him, OR just likes a fight. No matter, many feel that something needs to be done.
As for the recession until the gov started messing with the economy to try and make things look peachy, the economy seemed to run its cycle every 7 years or so. I don’t understand anyone saying the economy is good, the bubble on housing has burst and most will not recover on that investment for, my guess over 20years, any belief otherwise just consider the gov has taken action to soften the impact this fact has placed on many house owners. Because that market has not reached its bottom, a smart investor will still not start buying up houses but for pennies on the dollar.
The only thing good about the high inflation we are now having, is how our debt to China is getting more manageable. At the same time those of us in the US will be paying for this problem for many years to come, as income never keeps up with inflation. Guess I had better get busy on my now “guided blog”, thanks to your free e-book.
To Net Fool:
As an internet marketing newbie, but also less of an investor, please try & make me understand this. Last month, my shares in my Exxon-Mobil DRiP were at about $94/share. SO, I decided to let them ride. Now, they are at about $81/share? There are RECORD profits made in this sector, but I, as the investor, am not realiozing the profit- not being passed down to me.
The economy IS worse than we (John Q. Public) expect. Housing starts are WAY down; forclosures at an all-time high (thanks to the banking industry and their lax lending guidlines- DUH. Anything for a quick buck, huh?).
Food costs are rising like a rocket taking off to the stratosphere! Why? Well, less corn is now grown for consumption (by livestock and humans alike), which now makes the supply LOWER than the demand. Thanks, again, to the ethanol/gas debacle. It’ss all trickle down.
But, if you really, truely believe that the economy is not as bad as you believe, I invite you to my neck of the woods to chat & tour the halted housing projects.
Again, I am an average Joe, so my economic views are not collegiate, much like yours must be in order for you to have the career that you are in. Thanks for your time!
Do some research on peak oil and you will understand why the price of crude is actually dirt cheap right now. The last thing you want is for oil to be even cheaper, the effect of that, will be devastating. Bart Stupak clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
Well Shane we are not sure if he does or not but it sounds like people are starting to pay attention to what he is saying and a decision will be made by the end of August and we will all see the outcome then. We can only speculate ourselves so we will rather let time tell and see if anything comes from this.
I don’t mind paying for a “demand versus offer” for the price of gas.That’s the capitalist society we live in and must live with that. It’s the “too much speculation” that is the bigger deal here every time something in the world happens. Any reason they have is used to rise the price.
Regulation or not some will find a way to make money. Recently, we had the first real case of fixing gas price at the pump in one small region of Quebec, Canada. Yes, those are rare but it took years to prove it even if it was done for a few months in 2005. An Ultramart(refiner) regional manager was also in that plot.Ultramart did agreed to pay 1-2 million fine.
Like I wrote in my post, lowering the price will only increase demand anyway. Like a CNN analyst said a few weeks ago, people have a short memory.
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Interesting squidoo lens Jana, thanks for stopping by.
By the looks of things I don’t think people took Henry Kissinger seriously when in 1970 he said, Control all the oil, you will control all the nations, control all the agribiz/food you will control all the people.
It’s all a “Zionist”/power stricken group of people conspiracy to have control over everything on the planet, including using your mind as a commodity to get it done.
It’s time people start learning how to use their minds to do things that are going to benefit all instead of “some” people. Idolatry is the root of all evil not money. Stop being a follower and take control of your mind and start developing it to become vibrant in order to withstand all the crap that these demogogues keep throwing at you.
These people are not going to listen to reason because they are already stricken with “spiritual choler” the same thing that Herod (of Rome culture) died from. They are a bunch of losers who use military to bully people all over the earth.
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For all the research hounds, can you find out why this country exports 10% of it’s oil? Personally I feel it’s time to stop our dependency upon oil. There are ways around this, our country has been too selfish and hasn’t built mass transit systems in all of our cities, nor have we allowed domestic drilling, Texas is producing 6% of the worlds consumption.
I feel like if I want to complain about gas prices, that’s my right because I’m paying them, and for the jerk that made the comment about those who suffered foreclosure problems, realize that not everyone that ended up with their house being foreclosed on was a victim of the ARM craze, a lot of people have had to choose between their mortgages and getting to work in the morning.
I think talking about politics on a forum such as this, or discussing problems our nations may be having is not at all out of line, it shows an awareness of the world and a concern for where we’re headed. I don’t think we will have oil forever and I also think that like so many other things, we won’t be ready when we run out and it’ll be a mad scramble to create an alternative that everyone can embrace.
Right on cow for this post, and showing your political and economical awareness.
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Thanks MouthyGirl for seeing our side and we have certainly missed you around here the last couple months!
Sorry MouthyGirl, I guess you meant me. I didn’t mean to insult anybody. I know a lot of people had their homes foreclosed because of predatory lending and that it’s not always the owners’ faults.
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I hate paying high gas prices as much as the next guy. Really I do, but people really need to think about the cause of high gas prices. Got a mirror? Good, because YOU are the cause of high gas prices. It’s your refusal to change your lifestyle, your insistence on driving everywhere all the time that causes the problem.
We can moan and whine about everyone from Abdul who is breaking his back getting the oil out of the ground to the local guy selling you the finished product you pump in your car, but fact of the matter is that the first and last person who needs to take the blame are those who insist on doing everything as they always have. Don’t blame the speculators, don’t blame the drillers, don’t blame the gas station attendants, don’t blame OPEC. No place blame where blame is due. On yourself. It’s called personal responsibility. We’ve all made the mess, what business do we have expecting some government to bail us out?
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Brook we agree with what your saying but there is a degree to it. Yes we need to find a solution and the solution does start with us and we should not go crying to anyone to bail us out when we are not willing to be part of the solution but the point of this is our current consumption does not relate to the price… if it did truly relate then there would be no argument.
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Dear John Cow,
A businessman should not mix business and politics. Doing so in the long run will antagonize more people than it will attract.
Cheers,
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Hi all:
I do not know what the Pump Act does or says, but I do know that there are oil deposits in Alaska Gull Island and Prudow? Bay to rival Saudi Arabia. And there are the oil deposits off-shore in the Gulf of Mexico and off of the east coast. If American companies were to be allowed to pump this crude oil for sale to the people of the United State there would be no import tax on such and there would be no additioinal tax imposed by the United Nations and the price at the pump could be half as much.
One of Our problems is the US Dollar falling against international currencies. In the 1970 Henry Kissinger negotiated a treaty with Saudi Arabia to allow American companies to develop Saudi Oil whereby the US would buy this Saudi Oil under the condition that Saudi Arabia would us a portion of the proceed from these oil sales to buy the securities backing up the US Dollar – US Notes and Bonds. So the concern is that when we stop buying Saudi Oil Saudi will have no incentive to support the US Dollar and the USD would fall. This is also accompanied by the fact that the USD is no longer the world reserve currency in Oil. Iran and Venesuela no longer require USD to settle their trades. The US has made enemies of most all oil producing nations.
Well, with the USD already fallen substantially I see no ill affect that would prevent us from opening up the oil reserves on Alaska and and in International Waters. China is already drilling in international waters off the coast of the US so the threat of an oil spill that would endanger the US already exists and should no longer be a reason for NOT allowing oil production in international waters off the coast of the US.
Now about the closing of automobile factories and other manufaturing plants and their ultimate move to other countries both south and accross the globe to Asia is a great concern. Why would our Congress open up American markets to free trade when such would destroy good, high paying American jobs, jobs which support the American economy without which service industry jobs in Construction and other industries would suffer. Ultimately, if their are no jobs in America the American economy will collapse. And that is what I see happening now unless we get our manufacturing base back. The falling USD could very well influence that. Maybe soon the huge international corporations who are benefiting from free trade will establish new plants in the US from the profits thay have been making at our expense.
Sry for the Rant.
Blessings in truth,
Dave
Damn, John. If you wanted controversy it sure looks like you found it!
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My research shows the same facts. In addition this increase in gas and diesel prices has had a escalating effect on auto repair parts and resulted in many small older car parts being difficult to obtain. Gas prices might not be causing inflation, however, the cost of repair parts for my auto repair business have risen nearly 30% since last November. The price of staple foods has risen over 40% in the same time frame. This is not what your are told but check your grocery sales slips. Charles L. (Bud) Evans http://www.ratmtent1.com
Everyone wants to point the finger to say who’s to blame for high gasoline prices. The fact of the matter is as long as we’re consuming oil at the rate we are, prices will continue to increase over the long term. It’s simply a supply and demand issue. People are looking for someone to blame because they don’t want to change their own habits.
The amount of oil in the marketplace can’t meet the needs of the US and the rest of the world’s oil consumers. There are more consumers of oil than ever before partially due to the industrialization of China and India. When you have a fixed amount of product (oil in the ground) and growing demand, prices will naturally increase.
Politicians are more than happy to create some sort of litigation that will allegedly and miraculously lower the price of gasoline for everyone. These politicians know they will be seen as the hero if they can do this for even a short peroid of time (IE – getting through campaign season). The real problem though, is not price fixing the market. Someone will need to foot the bill for any price fixing legislation that’s enacted, that later collapses in the future. This bill will rest heavily on the shoulders of future American tax payers.
PS – Nice Linkbait by the way!
If everyone drove a Tesla, the oil crises would cease to exist.
Maybe when the price comes down, this can be closer to a reality. More info on the Tesla here: http://www.mahalo.com/Tesla_roadster
Im with you tesla all the way…..vrooom
I have a solution for gas prices. The solution is my own.
Do what I do.
Of course, this is voluntary. I have never complained about high gas, grocery prices and never will. I am too smart for this pity me economy mindset. It all begins with you. Stop reading news guys. Do something. Make your parents proud!
well I hope Mr. Stupak the best of luck.
like everyone I am feed up with these high gas prices and the effects they are having on the economy
wonderful world of economicss last blog post..should they still be to big to fail
Here in Venezuela, the gas is the cheapest, even more than the watter. Here you can full your tank for $2 or $3
Get over ourself????
Come on now… every single post on this blog is for one purpose… to achieve our goal… no different then any other blog. We have been preaching about content with purpose and this is an interesting story and your reaction is in our opinon ridiculous and narrow minded.
1. This is a news story that we care about
2. It is a story that affects us all
3. It is current
4. It makes good conversation
We share loads of strategies and stuff that people pay us top dollar for and we dont ask for a dime in return, we do not stuff affiliate offers down your throat like others do and you say get over yourself! Give me a friggen break Big Mac and get off your soap box.
There is nothing immoral of sharing a story that we truly feel is an issue, is something our readers care about (which has been proven) and yes we posted it on our blog to get exposure to the story. Sorry if we missed how we were misleading anyone, or taking advantage of anyone… we are not hiding anything and if we did not care about the issue we would not have posted about it.
Do yourself a favor and maybe dont be so bull headed and not follow the links we provided and you would see that perhaps this is not misinformed. Hard to believe you actually admitted your responding without even educating yourself on the points we link to. Prove to me we are misinformed and we will listen but dont get on a soap box and just say you know everything.
John:
Thanks for your response.
You just gave your more informed readers unequivocal proof that you can lead a horse to water; but you can’t TEACH him how to drink.
I laughingly rest my case.
Big Mac
Rest your case??? You had nothing to say in the first place and you were saying it far too loud!